User talk:Cybrxkhan
Welcome Hi, welcome to Etheria Project Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User:Cybrxkhan page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Caleone (Talk) 22:43, November 2, 2011 Western Islands Just notifying you that I named the two westernmost islands of your region (well, actually they are out of it by the look of the square but they do seem to be part of the southern Arcesian archipelago) in the Abwaxa article. Wondering if you mind that I put non-Arcesian people there. They'd be genetically related (like most of Daihexi inhabitants are genetically related to the Arcesians) but wouldn't speak an Arcesian language. Also, I'm posting on here because I figure this matter concerns us both rather than the whole community, so no need to bloat the thread, I hope that's okay :) Dhivuri 22:48, November 7, 2011 (UTC) No problem. On my Arcesian articles I've mentioned that the two big islands near the coast are already settled by the Arcesians, but not the two smaller islands far out. I think we already discussed about this, that the smaller islands far oiut would probably be colonized by both of our peoples (though not necessarily at the same time), and that some kind of hybrid culture might emerge. At this point it seems that when my colonists do first come (say, c. 300-500 EA), they will probably be from Coastal city-states, so I'm wondering how developed will your folks be by then? Cybrxkhan 23:06, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Agriculture never appeared independently on those islands (including Abwaxa). By 500 EA, they'd still be hunter-gatherers. Most likely they'd get assimilated, maybe with a few words passing into the colonists' language for local flora and fauna. The people from northern Daihexi, notably the Satoun people, would only come around these islands (and thus your city-states) much later, maybe around 1000 EA or even later. Not quite tuned in with the years yet :) Dhivuri 23:11, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good. RIght now, for my purposes, I'm interested in when date-wise your folks might start going towards the mainland - and thus possibly raiding and coming into conflict with my people. I am thinking (and I think I said this before) that any sort of incursion - even if decentralized - by your folks might put some impetus on my people to, for instance, unite against a common enemy (just one possibility), or for certain groups in Arces to manipulate the situation to their political advantage (such as the nomads taking advantage of the Empire being distracted to increase their own raids). Cybrxkhan 23:32, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Assuming your people settle Sho and Ahi c. 300-500 EA and mine only get to Abwaxa after that... and that getting to Abwaxa and colonizing it is the major point after which a substantial part of the trained sailors and warriors decided to go on raids on the Arcesian coast... When has the Arcesian Empire been founded? I think that would be a good point around which to build my timeline. Unrelatedly, does this circled part http://prntscr.com/3wt4z belong to Arces (as in, to its geographical definition)? Dhivuri 23:47, November 7, 2011 (UTC) The Arcesian Empire will probably be founded c. -500 to -300 EA, so a few centuries before the start of the calendar. However, of course, large settlements/city-states will have already existed for at least a few centuries before the founding (just like how in Egypt and Sumer there were already city-states and so forth before larger states came into being), so you can say that Arces already had some relatively large settlements c. -1000 to -700 EA (I'm not sure on the dates yet, but this is just a good timeframe). So you would probably be right to assume (for now) that Sho and Ahi would be colonized c. 300-500 EA. However, I think it will probably be very minor excursions at first, since there must be economic opportunities first for large-scale colonization to happen. Unless if, say, Sho and Ahi has large reserves of gold or copper or spices or something, large-scale colonization won't happen for a while. And even this colonization will be by the independent, coastal city-states of southern Arces who are usually not under the control of the Empire (until your folks start raiding, and thus the Empire steps in for its own political gain!). The circled part does belong to Arces geographically, but politically it's out of both the zone of influence/control for the Arcesian Empire and the independent city-states. It's like the northern border for them. However, if the Arcesian Empire viewed your folk's settlements as threatening, then they might step in, and conflict would start. Cybrxkhan 05:46, November 8, 2011 (UTC) I didn't think it would be founded that early. When does that put the birth of agriculture? Possible idea is that the Sâtoun people where actually living in Arces but moved due to the apparition of farmers; they went on this northern peninsula and parts of them crossed to Teng (so maybe they already had some kind of boating technology) and then to Makwau. So, say, Arcesian agriculture appears around -4000 EA. By -3500, the Sâtoun have completely relocated on the northern peninsula and by -3000, they are already settling Teng. Around -2000, they cross to Makwau and fully colonize its east by -1200. In the mean time, agriculture appeared on the Kwoudang coast around -2500 (so that means 1500 years after Arces). Between -2000 and -1200, the Sâtoun gradually 'convert' to farming, cities grow... I guess that could play out. Since the Daihexi are a few centuries late, you may want to cripple your empire with dynaty issues if you don't want to be too many steps ahead (but you may want? :P). Raids from Daihexi won't come before the various states take a look outside their archipelago, which will be after the foundation of the 'first Tengic Kingdom', which itself formed out of a Kwoudangese state; so there needs time for people from Kwoudang to go up to Teng and conquer them enough so they revolt. You may have to find a distraction during that time but I think your eastern side is open enough for barbarians :D Also, there could be an interesting turn of events if your empire gains political power to the south while stepping in to protect to CSs from the raids but then can't also defend the north against raids and eastern barbarians... ;) Finally, I thought about creating a Timeline of the Mesoborean Sea page (I think we don't need to split it between eastern and western Mesoborean Sea), that could be useful to work out dates. How do you like this? Dhivuri 10:39, November 8, 2011 (UTC) I think having a timeline would be good, so not only everyone else, but me myself, I can keep track of all the events going on! :O Anyhow, your estimate of c. -4000 EA would be plausible. The most conservative estimates for the Agricultural Revolution in the Fertile Crescent is c. 8000 BCE, and Sumerian and Egyptian states didn't arise until c. 3500-3000 BCE (i.e. 4000-4500 years later), so -4000 EA seems reasonable - maybe we could even shift it to anywhere between -7000 to -4000 EA to add to the ambiguity. Anyhow, politically, so far this is what I have: the first four dynasties of the Arcesian dynasty will run c. -500 EA to 200 EA. It will be typical consolidation of the region stuff. Around 200 EA, however, the plains-dwelling Arcesians, who are nomads, will begin attacking the main Arcesian Empire on a large scale for some as-of-yet-undetermined reason. Eventually, c. 250 EA, one of these groups even conquers the empire and founds the fifth dynasty, thus uniting part of the Plains Arcesians (nomads) and all of the River Arcesians, and solidifying the existence of Arces as a state. The fifth through seventh dynasties will run until our current limit, c. 500 EA, and since they are nomadic ancestry, they will have to be fighting with their traditional nomad enemies who haven't been subjugated into the Empire yet; by the fall of the seventh dynasty, c. 500 EA, the nomad vs. Empire fights, along with a collapsing administration, will grow to such a large extent that the Empire will go into a short 1-2 century decline (sort of like Ancient Egypt's 1st or 2nd intermediate periods). I was hoping that at this point, this would be when your folks step in to take advantage of the political chaos and begin colonizing the central and northern parts of Arces that were previously controlled (or close to the control) of the Empire. Meanwhile, throughout all this, most of the Coastal city-states are still sitting around allying or fighting with each other, somewhat out of the sphere of the nomad vs. empire conflicts - except when it was for their own interests. Some of the more northern coastal city-states will be directly or indirectly controlled by the Empire, so they will play more open roles in the nomad vs. empire conflicts. Afterwards, what I hope will happen is that once your folks invade, the Arcesians are forced to unite (under, say, the ninth or tenth dynasty), laying groundwork for a more stable, centralized Arcesian empire that controls most of Arces proper. It would be under this Arcesian Empire that the colonization truly begins. However, this is beyond the scope of the 500 EA limit, but it's something I'm having in mind. That's not to mention the copper trade, which could play a role in creating a lot of havoc, since historically it caused a lot of unstability. Cybrxkhan 18:17, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Timeline: I tried. It has a few quirks. I can't put any more work into for now (sleep time) but I'll try to make it better tomorrow. You didn't answer me about the highlight of Arces picture I made. Figured you might want one like that; if not, no problem. If you do, let me know if I correctly covered the area ;) Dhivuri 01:37, November 9, 2011 (UTC)